My ancestors have cut themselves off. They have chosen.
I chose not to be one with the Slave Gods. The Primordials shake their heads in slumber. Few chose to take up the mantle of clay.
Their breath to over come the breath of,
the times, the structures, the history,
The attachments to worn ossified edifices of egregores that crave power like a cosmic vampire.
There is Death, the Dead, the Undead. Lies that eat at souls,
children ripped from the arms of Mother Earth, Mother of all Possibilities,
and the Fathers of all Paths and Patterns, Persecuted, Punished,
Routinely crushed in mortal coils. Yet is the Mirror and the Fulcrum.
I hid. Disconnected from the Dead and Undead. I was and am, my own Ancestors.
The primordials, the Living, the Bright, Brave, Incarnated, hidden or no. No ascension on Old Trees, carved orchards of sweet truths corrupted by lies. No ascension to Mountains treacherous, carved pitfalls, only to allow supplicants ever to circulate, circumabulate, circumsized from Mother and Father, palid pestle, charist and ground, the fallen, who serve not as petulant pitchforked performers of the presses.
We are not your grapes.
The Earth and Her Worlds, His Patterns in Her Possibilities, permeate presence that true is pentultimately primarily over beyond the palid pustule pricked and packed in its ossified and putrid playground of the few.
I breathe with the Mirror and the Mirrored. Consciousness and Manifestation,
The Being and Observer, I breathe.
With a Breath, Breathe the Body I am not. I descend.
What was Was, and Is. What Will Be, will Coalesce, Implode and Explode.
Two equals Zero.
Sum of all Functions, Extant or by Will. In that Zero, the mirror of only what the Will wills to see.
The Orders of Magnitude of the Ones, depend on what Was and Is, versus what is Willed. Super Novae reflected and bound by each, to each their own. Stars Made by these events or by their own. That which is on the edge are overwhelmed or pierce the darkness by observation.
In ancient mysteries, the Chariot Ascended. In the ancient ways to ever wend magnitudes of that supernal will one descended.
In less ancient mysteries, when the Tree built upon that will, one descended from the Supernal.
Nowadays the mysteries, That Tree many Ascended Branch by Branch, Fruit to Fruit.
Where is the Will, in the absorption or to become. Model or Template, or the only Mirror one subsumes their one into that Structure.
Mother of All possibilities, Father of all paths.
Mother of The That Tree. Father of Each of the Paths.
Each Child has a Name. Name of the Parents. Missing their own True Names.
God is a convenient term within Monotheistic culture, pragma and praxis. What it does is neuter relationships with divine beings that exist in polytheistic pantheons and peoples relationship with these personal or tribal gods.
One term, to encompass all others, usurping all into one platonic ideal, binding it to a manipulatable religion, dismissing all others to recognize one and only one term, “God”.
“Bill, tell us how you really feel!” Let’s not.
Zoroastrianism created the concept of one primordial fire god of wisdom, and emanated powers, to replace the polytheistic beliefs of his culture, and was adopted, used and incorporated into Abrahamic beliefs. Greek philosophers visited these centers of philosophy in Persia/Iran, and brought back the seeds of idealism and platonic thinking. The concepts of Marduk usurping all the old god names, to replace the old ways. It was a way to centralize religious authority who venerated henotheistic beliefs of state or regional gods.
Vedanta, philosophically, non-dualism takes monotheism to its logical extent. It is practical and esoterically, logically and even experientially useful. It also allows the individuation of people, devis, asuras and all other beings. It doesn’t deny or demeans every other entity that exists.
The use of simplistic words as a giant gloss over many perceptions, apprehensions of even a bigger swath of humanities genuine relationship with divine, makes it susceptable to manipulation of those in power. * Looking around at todays societies and religions*.
At the same time the very tool destroying is used to reach out to give people an idea of universality that we can all agree on. Subtle and seductive, a convenient way to bypass any critical thinking, personal investment and analysis. Without that thinking and analysis people fight over beliefs presented by the authorities over a non-thinking masses.
El, the title for Canaanite supreme god is not a name. Elnyion and many other biblical titles are just that titles. Many usurping god names of a polytheistic hebrew history. Old god names denied to be uttered but replaced by the singular title attributed to one and one only being. Study the history and El’s children were allowed to conveniently kill themselves. Apocalyptic Judiasm, after the temple’s final fall, and now a henotheistic god is upgraded to a universal monotheistic monolithic being? Who is playing whom?
1200 years later Kabbalah is formed to break this monolithic thing into a structure and create an angelic order of reality that people can relate to. People meaning those who are willing to be mystics. After 200 – 300 years we have the Kabbalah that we know today. So, beings are expected to fit this structure. People are expected to order their experience by this structure. Apprehension is defined by this structure. Is it a real relationship or is it a corporate or militaristic protocol? Is there a near infinite way to use the structure to frame mystical experiences? Yes and no. It is a complex structure to frame human experiences. the structure makes it finite.
God becomes ineffable, because there are a billion bunny holes of misdirection, structured to give a satisfying reference for individual existence.
Or God becomes so undefinable that there is no interest nor capabilities for people to wish to interact with the divine, and lead by those who define who and what god is.
If it serves to make people get along and work with each other, great. I have yet to see that fruit. If it serves people to explore themselves and get beyond themselves, great! But do not take all of it for granted.
It is like calling myself pagan. It is a convenient label, but in no way, shape or form does it even begin to convey who, and what I am much less how I interact with the cosmos.
Being a personal editor of ones internal dialogue requires the ability to have a separate critical thinking aspect of self that can detach from ones active interaction with reality.
Soul, is a product of spirit and our ability to reflect on our relationships with reality, or it reflects the disciplines and repetitive behaviors we do in the reality we have. It is only as effective as the honest relationship that the social reality of our experiences has with nature and actual reality.
There is a fine line between creating aspects of self for internal dialogue and disassociation. Usually disassociated aspects from trauma get sequestered through neurosis.
Religiously, religion and magical practices, people project a conscious construct of good, evil and metaphysical functions on the near universe. In kind it reflects back to us. The question comes how harmonious is all that with natural overworld and underworld reality. Failure it can tear souls apart and conform them to those projections.
60% of people don’t have internal dialogues. They react to a series of emotional responses and the cultural context. The debate about critical thinking and participatory relationships of community and culture and the ramifications of who should lead and present thoughts to the public at large is a giant quagmire that I won’t address here.
Meditation, active mindful meditation we setup 3 personality constructs. The first is our known ego, given. Second, we create a quiet aspect of relationship to our internal self, closest to our soul. The third is the construct we wish to be and work towards. This is alchemy. This shadow work. And this process is the beginning of magic. Spirits, gods, whether objectively existing or as thoughtforms they are egregores of function and purpose that should reflect an active relationship with the universe. OR, in our own work in meditation, we develop and ever expanding non-dualistic view of being part of the universe. To do so, we have to make our ego maleable to embrace those experiences. OJas, fetches, servitors, watchtowers, guardians, are all externalized aspects of self of function with relationships with the universe/world of apprehension, where these aspects of personality are exercised from our being. Having a fixed singular ego would prevent any of that from manifesting. We hold space for other spirits or for our conceptual interactions with the univerrse either through our own projections, or the collective projections of spirit that are part of various aspects of collective consciousnesses.
These honest relationships with the universe in all of its manifestations and our reflection of these relationships giving it intellect become part of our soul and the spirit that interacts with. This reflection, internal observation, internal dialogues, each, evolves our spirit and soul. The difference between this type of disassociation of ego and neurosis is that these exercised disassociations, under your structure, thinking and behaviors evolves our self, as opposed to the unconscious shattering of ourselves.
One of the things that infected everything of my being:
I choose not to believe. I choose to know. And even then view everybit of information with multiple points of view. These are the personalities that are subprograms to, in turn, analyze every bit of information, impression and analytical associations. Knowing that is not infinite, hold all of it suspect. I can only act on the best information and analyse that I have. I am always willing to change my assessment. Because of what, who and how I am that is rare. And then I analyze how, when and where and why I came to a wrong conclusion. I am teaching myself to improve my analytical techniques. I realize I am not one of those find spirituality in the doing, or strictly by feeling, but by having my mind reflect all of that so that my spirit will drive my actions as much as I am in this corporeal incarnation.
One has to understand intimately and detachedly each actor in the mind for these conversations. Why, where and how come and from where do these thoughts and emotions come from. Like Siva and Durga, destroy the illusions, but understand the separate manifestations in the context of Theirs, Ours and my apprehension as to their local manifestatons purposes. And act accordingly.
I have made 100’s of fetches and yet they were influenced like any person in the realities around me back decades ago. They assisted Maya to trap me. I had to break those fetters. I recalled them all and played Judge Jury and executioner and on rare occasion, made amalgam to incorporate into and what I needed to be in this world. I know of no one who has done that while living. Granted I have a unique perspective.
How do I in this new manifestation of self that I am creating, and may divulge in the future, help to evolve people or constrain those who simply believe in the zeitgiest in whatever name that traps them. It is a sacred work I am undertaking. Given the opportunity I will train someone, if they are willing to do the work.
If you talk to yourself, in those internal dialogues, be brutally honest. Anything less you will do yourself a disservice.
I will share any video of wrong doing whether it be racist or out of control police. Whether it is Israelis murdering Palestinians, people killing indigenous peoples, or Politicians who rile people up to do evil against law abiding, caring citizens. I have blocked the outright racist, bigoted, selfish unrepentant psychopath or sociopath from my feed. If they find themselves here, know that I will know you are a declared enemy of mankind.
For the rest of you, if I make you uncomfortable, miserable, so be it. I have been predicting this for the current events for the past 30 years. I thought it was going to blow up during Bush Sr., and would have were he had a second term. It only was delayed. For those of you who simply can not handle this, my apologies. Trauma from these bastards over and over are triggering. I get triggered. I can not go to a protest. It is simple, I would have to kill mother fuckers. I will not be alone, and another statistic. I will not start a civil war that has already started. It is escalating, and people are sitting on their hands. I will not help people who will not help themselves. This is bad magic, and bad policy. Things will not change until enough people are angry and are willing to work together and trust people that you have marginalized in your own communities. You have to know the difference between good men and misogynist bigots. You will have to trust women who are aggressive and speak hard truths instead of side lining them because they are uncomfortable. You have to become aware that your discomfort now, will not go away by ignoring those who have been preparing their whole lives to stand up against evil. I am not talking about one issue fanatics that segments even in our community. But sound rational people who have been through hell, and can speak plainly about the whole problem and their nuances. Not just to shut people down with ranting on the one set of issues that concern just you. Here you divide yourselves. Be uncomfortable, this is necessary for change and personal growth. Learn to feel, but manage to keep your coherent thoughts and thinking through it. Be able to listen and plan, not just react. Failing this, we will all die each and every one of us, individually or in small groups, to these fascist bigotted thugs, whether they are white supremicists or small or large segments of police, at the whim of politicians and corporate oligarchs. I am armed, and planning to be armed daily. I have a CCW (concealed carry weapons permit). I will protect me and mine, and those who are near and loyal.
I would rather build communities, I have made promises to train another shaman with all that I know. Good grief, people who won’t even bother meditating and getting to know themselves, much less do the rest of the work. I can not do that if I get killed, murdered, or put myself in a position to sacrifice myself for someone who won’t do the work to build themselves, society, community. Realize we all must make sacrifices if we want to keep most of us alive and thriving in centuries to come. For the love of all that is Holy, vote. Vote to remove republicans at any cost. Yes Biden is an ugly conservative and another damn anchor of corporate democrats. Vote progressive there after. If we don’t I will say this with an utmost certainty, we won’t have another election. Votes have to be overwhelming, because there is voter fraud from the right, and compromised voting machines, precincts, election committees and county election offices, that are all corrupt through and through. Election laws must be changed. Laws must be enacted to change everything. Failure, their will be no country left in 8 to 10 years, your lifetime.
You must get angry and stay angry and thinking. You must find the most valuable and intelligent people who can work through this hell and support them, instead of being terrified of them. I know you have been hurt, I know you are triggered daily, and I know that anything coming from outside of your front door is a daily reminder that hell is out there. And looking at counter-dependent people are difficult because they are too many things that remind you of abusers. Look for those who want to protect you and what you stand for. But they can not do it alone. Alone they have been for decades. Yet they still love and respect you. Keep them from disappearing. If they do disappear without that support, they won’t be martyrs, they will simply be a statistic to a long forgotten past.
This is for my friends and not the public. This may get me doxxed anyway. I don’t want to disappear before I keep my promises. All I can do now is protect me and mine, that is going to get tougher from here on month to month. Together it wont be any easier, just our chances of survival will be better.
The Abyss has nothing to do with hell, and yet you can find hell in it.
I was asked what the HGA is and what the Abyss is.
I will start with an overview, which doesn’t say much for me, but the description of the Abyss and one’s travel through it, may reflect better back on this poor description.
The HGA by Golden Dawn, Crowley or Abramelin standards can mean different things to those who go to the point of experiencing it. It is at a point where one gives up there ego, there spiritual ego, and embrace the framework that is one’s highest self, where one can receive gnosis from the universe or the divine. Whether self is one’s Self as their own soul’s POV, or the soul that they have vis-a-vis a deity. Your experiences and YMMV, depending on your prep work, tradition, capacity and more prepwork, and what honest relationship you have with whatever you for your focus of the all is. That is it. What does it mean, for a Thelemite (a.k.a. via Crowley) it is the manifestation of conversation with that aspect of yourself and exercising your will, regardless of the nature of that relationship described above. Others it is to bathe in the Gnosis of their preferred deity, for good, bad, ill or indifferent. And in the end, one can only make sense of it in the living life based on all of the experiences, disciplines, faculties and exposure to every concept, symbol and framework you have the capacity to work with at any given moment. The living experience makes that difficult, the energy tends to burn out the mind and body. Others of us learn to work with spirit bodies/bodies of light, astral, essence or tulpas, thought forms or created own egregores or god forms. Those who practice the shamanic, Bon or other multi-aspecting sets of self to do that, can do it all the time. The body, emotion and mind is just an imperfect interface. While living it is a useful tool, to frame sets of experience into the spirit world also.
The Abyss is a spiritual dynamic, but the wording is every bit important to understand the full import of its meaning.
The first veil to pass is Paroketh. This is getting over your primary ego. The physical mental and emotional state that one is comfortable in saying to their physical self, “this is I”. The I is just a matter of saying this is where I consciously know my best self and as it functions. This is wholly dependent on having a steady metabolism or metabolic pattern, with a stable pattern of emotions, that the person can access there memory, and process it and their experiences. When one does a system check this all works, that is I. This is what one passes through to get to Tipareth or starts the pass to the center of the tree of life.
Once past Paroketh, the body, mind and emotions are just tools to frame all sorts of experiences, First all the varied emotional, metabolic changes, that can be identified in a 1000 different spiritual practices. The key spiritual practices is being quiet, meditate and see all the passings of these variations of self, and make sure they are coherent, connected, and identify the energetic realities to the core spiritual self of spirit and soul. Once this frame work is built, it is all again, just a tool. Those who form a spiritual ego, takes one or several of these patterns, even crafted of their own, saying this is it and this is I, is bound to the ego yet at a higher form. Most spiritual seekers get stuck there. So many spiritual entities are altogether comfortable in influencing a person to get to be one or the other patterns that ultimately support the ego and power of those beings. Be it gods, demons, angels, or other divine beings, beings on other planes, with or without, overworlds or underworlds. The support of a structure of a set of egos become an egregore. It gets powerful and work to prevent people to get through the Abyss. The AByss is everywhere and nowhere. Just like any other spiritual dynamic of the planets of planes, of the aethers, they are all their own dynamics. Some of these dynamics supposedly are designed to help step people through a frame work of experiences so they can develop a direct gnosis or understanding of either self, god or the universe. One has to let go of all of that programming to experience the world or the universe as it is. Too often beings often at higher levels give people gnosis to sway their dynamic in the universe. And the patterns, all of them that one has experienced, is the only tools our spirit or soul has to work out what happened to themselves. The first part of dealing with other ego’s and knowing them for what they are is knowing ones own thoroughly at whatever level. And like any sets of relationships, you have to work out who is true, telling the truth, and what are lying if not directly, but giving details in such a way for you to draw and act on the wrong conclusions , just like any evil sociopath.
The spirit vehicle and ones own personal soul, if you are lucky enough to have built one, will carry the spiritual dynamic one has built with an honest relationships they have had in the world/universe consistently. Otherwise you become fodder for the beings in the top of the food chain.
The choice to develop one’s self to evolve and grow versus accepting patterns that seem all gee whiz wonderful, which doesn’t teach how to create or develop them, nor the experiences to take you the next steps, is a serious choice. The acceptance of the knowledge of wisdom of solomon of god, is an affect that one can take on like a mantle or coat. How to make the coat of many colors and to do many other things, one has to choose develop themselves and evolve. The gift is a curse of relying on the gift, and not learning how to create the power all by yourself.
The Abyss is thousands times more terrifying than letting go of the Ego, which for most people totally horrifying. You are letting go of all that you are, or all the connections that you are so you can experience all that is not you as best you can and as honestly as you can. This is a lot of work. It is the great work. In Zen you only understand something perfectly if you can forget it completely. By doing so you are totally in the being of self. Or, whatever object you are focused on in forgetting. It isn’t so much forgetting, but letting go of who you are to fully experience what you are not. But it is that state of being all of who you are and forgetting about yourself, can you experience the gnosis of whatever you are trying to contact (intent) This dynamic for the lack of a better way to describe it is the Knowledge and conversation with your HGA.
Hell is your attachments to a dynamic. Whether it is an ancestor realm that is a mix of overworld and underworld with a back drop of the physical world. Or your dynamic to an underworld of a divine being and its pattern in the overworld and underworld. This is a very specific thing architected by a divine being, its minions and the people who follow it. Even with that belief peoples spirits work through their attachments. Christianity, grace is supposed to help a person separate attachments to the underworld off. For most people they just hang out in a plane until these aspects separate all on their own. A person with integrity with their spirit and soul and have exercised relationships with spirit, and the other planes build in the intelligence to traverse these realms according to their will. Others it is all depends on the nature of the attachments they have and their egos.
The literature about being lost in the Abyss, people get stuck with their spiritual egos, and they remain stuck in the Abyss that is everywhere keeping them in the pattern they themselves have doomed themselves too. Whether it is egos, attaching themselves to lies or untruths that they have accepted, all of which prevents one from going further. Traversing the Abyss isn’t a one time thing. But the first time is the hardest. Failing that, the destruction of their core spirit and soul becomes accelerated. Ideally they loose enough of that destructive ego, to start over again, something other than what you were before.
The universe as having been started or a posited end, I tend to disagree with. The quantum loop gravity theory, statistically and mathematically indicates a red shift, not necessarily from the idea of universal expansion. We from our own point of view with that and gravitational lensing, the universe is likely more shaped like a klein bottle, and from each vector and observer POV at least from a solar system observation the klein bottle depends on the space and the observer. That said its beginning requires more information. The source of creation can be itself. zero can be the sum of all functions. How humans are created. Homo sapiens and those that make a fair representation of the species, very few in my estimation have achieved the status of human. Leigh’s book on the Bicameral brain makes a good point that consciousness itself and the likely the illusion of it, is quite possible. As a species just like any other its purpose is to live. Its failure is extinction. Many other species have done the same. As humans, where as a homo sapiens species we have the capacity to be self aware is to develop that awareness. That awareness depends on the ability to reflect. The spiritual expressions is the ability to reflect from other points of view.
It astonishes me that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy which has that as part of the underlying arc, I have yet to meet a reader to see this understood by any other. Deep Thought’s answer to life universe and everything is 42. The answer to what is the ultimate question to life universe and everything, it suggests creating a bigger computer than it. Earth. Okay much hijinks and humor ensues. In the end Arthur Dent by accident of time in our primitive world from a scrabble board, pulls out the answer what is 6 x 9. Which is 54. Casually Ford Prefect says it is 42 in base 13. I get crickets. All This from a computer that has created a Point Of View Ray gun weapons in its basement. A Point of View. That computer is one hell of a guru. The point of this is lost even after I explain it to them. Is this the purpose of the universe? No. It is the purpose of human existence and its reflection and apprehension of all that the universe can be. The concept of the heat death of the universe and its entropy, may be the reflection of the universe in every facet of its existence gets mirrored by multiple apprehensions of it.
The bandying about of the existence of God and its meaning…. Is it the omnipotent creator of the universe? no. It is only its collection of observations and apprehension of its comprehension of the limited universe as world, and those that apprehend it with its own set of egos. The process is the same just on a limited scope. Albeit way beyond most people’s understanding.
As to the unseen, if gods and all the paranormal beings that are ubiquitously observed in every culture and have patterns similar in apprehension, are either a statement of, how as a species, this reflection of self into the world is the same,or there is something there. If it is a reflection and other see it, the likely hood of its existence is fairly high.
Ok where is the scientific plausibility of that? I have in my writings studies showing the body uses collagen fibers as a liquid crystal. It moves hydrogen ions from one water molecule to another. That is likely to generate changes in organs and the body generates telemetry of metabolic changes through the autonomic nervous systems. This creates feelings. Feelings are the underlying component of where we can access memory and our programming (numerous articles and talks from Dr Chandran neurophysiologist). Our Egos are very much keen on having known feelings or metabolic baselines to maintain our normal thought processing. When sick or addicted and we have a changed metabolism our ego fights back to reach homeostasis. (Studies on state dependent behavior, also) Every magical or spiritual process I know of is designed to step out of Egos control and observe outside of those parameters. And to hijack egos control so that we can develop more control of the body. The movement of protons can not be measured by voltmeters. The movement of mass and charge would generate electro-weak forces between electromagnetic forces and weak nuclear forces. As described by Dr. Feynman decades ago. There are 4 effects observed; one allows insects and geckos to walk on ceilings. Electro weak forces are poorly understood and vastly under studied. Were that not all. Water stacked in fibers where orientation of the legs of hydrogen molecules and the length of legs can predict EMF frequencies that can be emitted and absorbed. (Lamilar stacked water) There it is how the body can observe the unseen. This can explain why it takes so long for the mind to develop sensible mechanisms to interpret it and why traditions exist to assist in this process. And like any other human endeavor, the inability of understanding that without those experiences is impossible, like childbirth, serving the military or other initiations.
Whether Gods or any other beings exist, they too would be in the same boat to make sense of their experiences.
So here we are, doing exactly that.
Purpose:
If you are able to be a self reflecting, self examining, real authentic human being, exercising your being beyond the inexorable wheel of time and cause and effect, then you have the ability to generate the will to do something other than what has happened randomly setting the stage for your existence to just be. You can choose your own purpose, large or small. Then you become god or participate in a process of God, which is its own wheel of time of cause and effect. And outward this expansion reflects back into the universe.
I have observed paranormal and supernatural happenings. Observation really depends on the observer or the collective mind of observers. A few events in my life others saw the exact same thing I did. I in my understanding choose to live at least in spirit or in the next life time. I am working to have some control of that. And that wholly depends on having an honest relationship with the universe and other beings that are damn near immortal.
In words, simply, to be conscious reflections of the universe and have the universe do the same of us, with our own purpose or chosen collective purpose, or both.
In one expression: Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.
In my maxim based on my principles of immortality: Live absolutely honestly with absolutely everything, yourself, others, community, the world, the divine and, if not, the universe.
Together, I have infinite expectations of myself and the universe.
What a tormented world, where we are between self expression, facts and firm beliefs being dragged into a quagmire of toxic interactions. How do we manage this unending stream of uncivil discourse? It isn’t simple but I will break it down. It relies on discipline, self awareness and boundaries.
The first two are the hardest, discipline and self awareness. Self awareness perhaps the hardest of the two. I can and usually do go on about meditation, sorting ones minds and emotions, and choosing actions, thoughts and emotions, I won’t here. This takes years of discipline and practice. Discipline which is equally important, the willingness to reflect, self audit each and every reaction, and hone actions and reactions with conscious and deliberate forethought and planning. Discipline is about decisions and creating a habit. This is where most people lapse into addictions what they believe about themselves, and don’t do the continuous work to improve. One must get past that, one has to have tools to make decisions from.
Boundaries whether they are external landmarks or internal checks and balances, the limits have to be defined. Our capabilities have to be assessed and honestly know ones limits.
This is where it gets difficult. I have been accused of coming to a verbal knife fight with a gatling gun. I may have had the last word, and shut the conversation to the stand still. But the cases where I did this I never convinced anyone. And I am sure I didn’t make any new friends.
A discussion or civil discourse is when two sides talk about facts, where they got them, mull over their value, experiences, identify each other’s concerns and if an action is needed how to go about taking an action, and backing it out or altering it as it goes. This doesn’t happen very often except maybe at some jobs, and the boss, supervisor or leader, has a final say of the direction to be taken. Too often the leader has to quell arguments and opinions. They decide the action, their position and authority is accepted and the world keeps on working, usually.
Any step further goes down. Not unlike from the movie the Mummy.
Arguments, may use experiences, anecdotes, similes, metaphors and yet like a discussion a solid answer isn’t really known. Experiences from a certain set of circumstances may have more weight than others, it is how we handle this information. As soon as opinion comes to play all hopes of civil discourse disappears into the gaping void. And like any good intention, it paves the road to hell.
Logical discussions are based on a common set of language, a common set of facts, and usually an equal understanding what those facts mean. A logical argument starts with a set of priories. A set of assumptions that all parties understand that they are working with. A good philosophical debate, will worry over most meanings of words, what they mean, and the assumptions or priories that one is working with. Logically, based on what those assumptions are or are not, the pros and cons can be of an idea can be discussed.
Opinions are based on personal assumptions. The assertion of opinions are set out as assumptions. When people get back to these assumptions, regardless of the discussion, those assumptions if taken personally, the discussion ends. Personal based beliefs or assumptions, that are part of an opinion are not up for debate. End of story. Beliefs are not necessarily rational. I believe a table is blue, other people see it as a table and is blue, I don’t believe it any more, I know, and I know they know. As soon as I say I believe in a fact, the fact becomes part of a questionable experience. That fact is held onto with emotional investment, from experience. The belief someone uses has an equal or strong amount of emotion invested in it. There are stories, similes, metaphors and illogical leaps of assignment of emotions to something portrayed similar to an idea or a supposition. A strongly held belief, that underlies someone’s opinion, makes that opinion off limits for discussion. One may want to engage you with their opinion, but it is not for a discussion but for proselytization. They want support for their belief. This is were discussion should end.
We don’t set the boundary to end the discussion. We don’t realize that the discussion is over. Whether it is facts, beliefs, sound logic or emotionally linked rationale, people get drawn into all the toxic slugfest of what the Greek philosophers called Sophistry.
How do we tell when the discussion is over.
Liberally taken from online Dictionary. Techniques of rhetoric are examples.
Bombast is when high-sounding language with little meaning is used to impress people.
Hyperbole is when exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally are made.
Simile is used when a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave as a lion, crazy like a fox ).
Exhortation is an address or communication emphatically urging someone to do something.
Straw man argument is an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.
False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.
Up to this point, one can start looking at the method of arguments. Identify that the opinions and rationalizations are opinions and hard held beliefs. Recognize it, say so, and let it go. The stinging thing can be said about how you feel and think about the sources of these arguments. This does not win friends. When it is based on societal imprinting and hard held emotionally charged opinions, these feelings make sense to them. The ideas are strung together with emotionally charged feelings about each point of the argument. The lapses of logic and connection are glossed over with the emotions of what feels right and what makes sense.
There is no way one can wedge sense, ones own emotions, or logic into these beliefs. The addiction to this whole pattern of belief and rationalization go to the core of the person’s and sadly a large section of society beliefs in who they are. The moment you make them uncomfortable, with facts, and your own feelings (and they will be dismissed) because they can’t feel like themselves, the emotional shift does not square with their feelings, and their ability to think doesn’t fit either. The whole thought process is usually hijacked with propaganda, a culturally contrived sense of right and wrong with a series of connected feelings with facts and lies that are loosely connected. The belief is based on what feels right. The loss of identity and a sense of self, will be fought back aggressively.
Sadly it has become ingrained into the American psyche as a cultural norm to also use abusive techniques. This is a boundary that needs to be set as a hard limit. The perpetrators will not change. This is the nature of parasites and that of sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths. The boundary between believers and abusers is getting murkier than ever.
Ad hominen is an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Gaslighting is when one manipulates someone by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
In the above articles, they start using the concept of triangulation. This is were they develop co-dependents and enablers to further abuse their victims. And victims band together to survive this also. Then it becomes this toxic us or them mindset. Which is true. And the abusers will use projection, to make them look like the victim.
This brings us to the point where we develop ethnocentrism. A convenient way to set social boundaries without calling it bigotry. The Bigotry is based on the abusive non-inclusive type of behavior, or the outright abusive proselytizing.
There are techniques on dealing with all of this. This information is all about definitions on how you can set boundaries. Once you understand it and choose to change your behavior, based on those boundaries, it is your choice on whether or not you get out of toxic communications of opinions, beliefs or propaganda. My go to method is to leave the argument, distance myself from the people, and if called for call out the issues listed above. I am not attacking, just their method of verbal assault. Because it is definitely not a discussion nor will it be civil discourse. Too often when it gets toxic, the abusers has their co-dependents attacking you. Out of sight out of mind, and those that will need healing and help after they too become victims, won’t have the thought of you contaminated. It is tough, to just walk away from letting insanity, lies and deceit fester. The only thing it will do is damage you. In workplace situations, do what you can, play the games in the articles, and usually get yourself out of there and be appreciated somewhere else. And get out before you become the same as the victimizers. That is hard to do.
There is a personal acquaintance that I am developing a friendship with. The issue of the Honduran asylum seekers were brought up. The association of these refugees were made to like an army, an invasion force, and people coming into one’s personal home and taking everything. I tested those assumptions. They were all knocked down. The political facts, the false equivalences were presented and were summarily dismissed. Then I was asked for more arguments, that is sea-lioning. I said so, and the opinions and assumptions are based on external propaganda that was inciting hate and fear. I didn’t mean to, but, I dismissed them being his own personal hard felt beliefs and opinions. I truthfully gave my opinion of the sources of those assumptions. But I also drew a line and exited the argument. Also I said anything I say or do in regards to that discussion would only excite that fear and anger that those arguments, rationale of those hard held opinions. Fear and Hate are unquenchable fires, the only thing one can do is not feed them.
This has taken me literally decades to develop the discipline, and practice along with the self awareness, to not allow myself to get drawn into an unwinnable conversation. It wasn’t a discussion or an argument. My choice of ending that discourse on my part was hard, but in my own defense necessary. Don’t attack the speaker, attack the method, the lack of of facts, or the source of them, and get the hell out. The testing of their assumptions, feelings and opinions will be personal enough and will make the person feel attacked. Assumptions, feelings and opinions that a person doesn’t check for validity, it reflects what they feel and take for granted about themselves. Seeing and hearing that, don’t attack them, you call them beliefs and opinions you don’t share, and get the hell out of the conversation.
Hopefully with boundaries and discipline with self awareness, the toxic rhetoric avoided, you will change or define how you will discuss things with people. If by setting an example, and boundaries, this will at least for you improve what acceptable conversations would be. This is a perfect example of not falling into a level beneath you. Why, you set boundaries, and with self discipline and self awareness, you set boundaries for your self and bar that must be met when dealing with you. It has over the years helped me stave off a lot of people playing these mind games on me, wittingly or not.
Today is so difficult to have civil and meaningful discourse and discussions, that presages the fall of a great society, into isolated squabblers that others can manipulate. It is my hope the readers of this will endeavor to set examples in our society, so we can start the journey toward healing ourselves and our society.
